Everybody Has a Game Plan ‘Til You Get Hit: The Anthony Macias Interview Part 2
Part Two of Three: Facing The Beast… and the Biggest Fight in the Locker Room
By William Colosimo | firstname.lastname@example.org
William Colosimo: At a press conference before UFC 4, they used bingo balls to determine who was going to fight who. Prior to getting matched with Severn- did you have any kind of game plan before the fight? “Well, if I have to fight Dan, this is what I’m gonna try to do?”
Anthony Macias: No (laughter). No, I was just gonna go out of there and fight, man. Everybody has a game plan ’til you get hit. Okay? (Laughter)
WC: The first time I saw your fight with Dan, I thought if you were landing a couple more of those elbows- I couldn’t see how that wasn’t gonna start seriously affecting him.
AM: Man, I was nailing him with those. He told me after the fight, he said he’d never been hit that hard. It made me feel better, you know- for a little 160 pound guy. He was a great guy.
WC: He was a good… I don’t think they lied about his weight. I think he was 260. That’s a good hundred pound weight advantage, that’s craziness.
AM: He was a very powerful man. And I’m gonna put out a secret here, ’cause they made this rule after I did it- knowing that I was gonna fight Dan Severn, right before the fight- I put baby oil all over my body.
WC: That was my next question. After your fight, when Dan got interviewed- they cut this off the VHS (Video Home System) tape, but he said something like, “He was really oily, I couldn’t get my hands on him.” That was totally legal though, there was no…
AM: Yeah (laughter). Well, do you want him grabbin’ you dry? (Laughter)
WC: Oh God, no (laughter). So the secret with the baby oil- you rub all that down, right before the fight? It soaks in and you start sweating and then you get oily? How does that work?
AM: No, I had it caked on. Look at me and… I take the towel- because I’ve got it on me so much, I’m like, “I’ve gotta wipe my hands, I’ve got baby oil all over my hands.” So I take the towel and I wipe my hands (laughter).
WC: (Laughter) Oh, that’s funny.
AM: Have you ever tried (laughter) to catch a greased pig?
WC: (Laughter) So yeah I’m glad you brought that up ’cause he did mention that. And then after that whole event- UFC 4- when it was all said and done, you saw the first three, you participated in the fourth one: what were your feelings on the UFC in general? What did you think about the show or NHB fighting?
AM: You mean the show as far as production and W.O.W. Promotions?
WC: No, not so much that, so much as fighting NHB, any-
AM: Man, I’m gonna tell you right now, they were great. It was the best experience I’ve ever had with the UFC- them and Pride (Pride Fighting Championships). I put those two up on the top. ‘Cause those two- man, they treat you like you’re the kings, brother. It was awesome. Now, as far as NHB- I was hooked whenever I went and watched it live, so… that was already answered (laughter).
WC: At UFC 4, before the show or right after the event: did you talk to Severn or Al Snow at all?
AM: It was after everything happened. It was after the whole event and everything was gone. Remember they had a little after party always after the event- and we all went, had drinks and everything, and photos and all this stuff, so it was then- if I’m not mistaken. There was no correspondence between him and I after the fight. He was still hyped up and I wasn’t tryin’ to get in his mojo, you know what I mean? (Laughter)
WC: After UFC 4, you moved down to Dallas- were you training out of Mezger’s gym with Guy and Oleg?
AM: Yeah, we were training over there at Mezger’s when it was off of (U.S. Route) 75 in Dallas. Training with those guys, and still keeping my face around with Oleg, and going to UFC 5 with him and helping him out- and so was Guy and everybody.
WC: So you met Oleg most likely in Dallas before UFC 5.
WC: With the Lion’s Den- did you ever go to California and spar with Ken there, or did he go to-
AM: No, I never went out to California.
WC: At UFC 5 when you knew Oleg was gonna be matched up with Severn, what did you think before their first fight? What did you think about how that would go down?
AM: Oh, man- you know, back then it was a toss-up; you didn’t know that Severn was gonna be in the finals. But when it got to that, I was like “Oleg’s gonna go to the ground.” I just thought Oleg had a better knowledge of it, but the cage and everything- that didn’t play into his favor because he was trying to reach underneath and grab the back leg with the arm bar and got some knees dropped on him.
WC: You were there at UFC 5 cornering Oleg- were you ready to be an alternate in case they needed one for that show?
AM: I think they had their alternates already, if I’m not mistaken. But yeah- I would’ve fought. I was training, I would’ve been ready. And those are usually the best fights, ’cause you don’t have that build-up or that anxiety, or the “Uh… I gotta fight.” You know what I mean?
WC: Exactly. You don’t have time to think about it or stress out about it.
AM: Yeah- it happens.
WC: UFC 6- was it difficult for you to get that alternate spot on the card? How did you get into that show?
AM: Buddy Albin. That’s all I gotta say (laughter).
WC: How long before the event did you know that you were fighting “He-Man” Ali Gipson? Did you know who it was, or did you have a few weeks’ notice that you were gonna be in the event?
AM: Yeah, yeah. Let’s see. Ken, Dan… Dan got there early. We got there at Casper (Wyoming) a little over two weeks early- you know because of the elevation.
WC: Ken had told me the Lion’s Den was pretty notorious at that time for basically holding NHB fights between team members- they would fight each other (Anthony laughs). Did you see anything like that training in Casper before UFC 6 or was it too close to the fights, where they didn’t want to risk injury?
AM: No… well, here’s the thing: working out with Ken and all those guys- man, the workout is a fight. You’re not just working out- you’re fighting. That’s how it was back in the day, we didn’t have stations to do different… we just worked out, beat the hell out of each other- kinda how it went. Trial by fire.
WC: On the UFC 6 PPV, broadcaster Bruce Beck mentioned that you had trained with Guy Mezger, Andy Anderson, and some judo people leading up to this show. Is that accurate?
AM: That’s accurate.
WC: Did you meet Gipson at that point?
AM: No- I didn’t meet him or know anything until we had met in the cage, man.
WC: Did you have any interactions with him after the fight?
AM: A little bit, at the party.
WC: The Gipson fight- even though they only showed clips of this on the PPV, I thought what they showed looked amazing. What we saw was the clinch, takedown, you bridge from underneath, you got the mount, then you threw some head butts and some elbows to finish him. Can you take me through that fight, play by play as much as possible?
AM: Oh, man. He was a big’un (both laugh). They always are, man- I don’t know what happens. Man, yeah we just started to strike, hit a couple leg kicks, hit him with a couple of straight lefts- and then he tried to throw a couple punches and I clinched with him immediately. And then we kind of tussled. I tried to throw him- he ended up on top of me, ’cause he was a big’un. And then I got him turned over- I swept him, I think. Hit him with some elbows and head butts and that was the end of it.
WC: Steve Armstrong, he put up one of your fights on YouTube. He’s got all of Mezger’s fights-
AM: (Laughter) Yeah, is that the one where I got disqualified for leg kicking?
WC: Yes. That was a kickboxing fight from ’95. That’s why I was asking you earlier about if it was Thai rules that you were doing- because of the low kicks.
AM: Well here’s what happened (laughter), I’m gonna tell you what happened. See, I did that to make a point. The promoter- he came to UFC and said “Hey, here- sign the contract.” I said “Okay, but it’s leg kicks, and if you can’t throw knees- that’s fine, or no elbows- but we’re doing leg kicks.” I wrote it in the contract: “Leg kicks.” And, we get there and he’s like “No, no leg kicks.” I was like, “Dude, I just flew all the way. I’ve got a contract that says right here in my handwriting: ‘Leg kicks.’ Somebody’s getting leg kicked in the head” (both laugh). Back in the corner, they were like “Man, you’re beating him! Come on man, don’t- what are you doing? You’re beating him!” I’m like, “Yeah, I know.”
WC: I gotcha. The UFC 6 alternate fight- I think usually the UFC would send everybody tapes of their fights. You’ve got a tape of that one?
AM: I didn’t get it from the UFC, I got it from… what is his name? Charlie Anzalone. Great guy, Charlie.
WC: He’s originally from Buffalo, New York.
AM: Yeah, exactly. He’s from Buffalo. ‘Cause I was up there and we’d done some stuff with him. We went up to Buffalo a couple weeks early for the Oleg-Ken fight.
WC: Oh, UFC 7.
AM: There we go.
WC: Okay, then after the UFC 6 prelim fights, for the semi-finals- now this is a little weird because Patrick Smith was supposed to fight Oleg, he stepped out due to stomach cramps, they said, and then-
AM: That’s exactly what he said in the back.
WC: He did the same thing, I think on the Ultimate Ultimate ’95 when he was supposed to fight Severn- he left the day before because of stomach cramps or something.
WC: So anyway, they had mentioned on the PPV that you were the first alternate to go. Now, Joel Sutton- another Buffalo guy- fought the other alternate fight in UFC 6. They showed him in the crowd and Beck said that even though he won, he was unable to continue for some reason. He didn’t look like he had damage. Do you know why Joel couldn’t fight him?
AM: I do not. I didn’t know if he got injured or what the deal was.
WC: And then they had mentioned on the PPV that Guy was an alternate, but understandably he didn’t want to fight Oleg. And then I heard later, I think Maurice Smith might’ve even been at this show and they were trying to talk to him about jumping in at the last second. Was Maurice Smith there?
AM: Maurice was there. The whole crew was there, bro. Scott (Bessac) was there. Pete (Williams) was there, I think. Yeah man, it was a big crew there.
WC: Let me run this rumor by you and see how accurate it is. David “Tank” Abbott had won his semi-final fight, so he was going to the finals. Buddy thought Oleg would have the best chance in the finals, and wanted him to go in fresh- so you were threatened by Buddy Albin that if you didn’t let Oleg win, you were done in NHB. Is that accurate?
AM: Yeah, pretty much, dude (laughter). You know- pretty much.
WC: So, I’m assuming he probably wasn’t your manager after that fight.
AM: That’s correct (laughter).
WC: When Albin told you that you had to lose to Oleg- can you tell me was anyone else in the room at that time?
AM: No, that was me and Buddy in the bathroom.
WC: Now how did that go down? Did he call you in there, and you could kind of tell something was up?
AM: I was already in there. He came in, and it was just one of those… Oleg was supposed to win UFC 5, is what he said to me. He said, “We’ve got a lot of money invested in this, and if you fight him- then you’ll never fight for me or anywhere else again.” It wasn’t that word for word, but that’s basically what the conversation was.
WC: Then after that UFC, did you have any opportunity to talk- not through Buddy- to the actual UFC brass?
AM: I’ve sent them some correspondence, but I’ve never received anything back.
AM: Buddy had me on some ten year contract shit, I don’t know what it was. It was some sixty-forty (laughter)- I get sixty, he gets forty, ten years, all that. So…
WC: Is that something you signed when you were 14 or so years old?
AM: (Laughter) Well, I was young. I wasn’t that young, but I was probably 19 or 20.
WC: And that covered not only your kickboxing, but also your NHB fights too?
AM: No, oh- he penciled that in (laughter).
WC: (Laughter) Holy shit, didn’t even use a pen. So then after-
AM: Well no, he penciled it in and then he copied it- so it looked like a pen (laughter).
WC: (Laughter) He doesn’t sound like he was too much on the up and up with you.
AM: You know, I did a couple more things with him after that. The IFC- I did an IFC tournament with him, John Lober was in that. Yeah, I did a couple things with him.