Talkin’ Boxing with Larry Holmes

April 11th, 2009

A kinder, gentler all-time great heavyweight champion Larry Holmes discusses a wide range of topics including, what he thinks could restore life in the flagship division, Hatton-Pacquiao, MMA, training with Ali, the Berbick incident, Who is the greatest?, and more…

“They’re ruining the game from the top down.”

“Because I don’t know any guy out there who was the greatest. Muhammad Ali would say he was the greatest. I can’t agree with that. Because I know Jack Johnson was a bad-ass man.”

“I had so much pressure on me. When I lost it was the happiest day of my life probably.”

BoxingInsider: Are you enjoying our heavyweight division these days?

Larry Holmes: Not for me. I don’t even watch it. I watch it because I show it in my nightclub because people like to watch fights. But as far as I’m concerned, it’s boring. The little guys were okay. Exciting is that little guy I watch – that Mayweather – now that he might come out again, I’ll watch him again. But I haven’t found anybody that I want to watch and say, Hey, that’s what I want to see. In the heavyweight division – I don’t even consider that a heavyweight division because guys talk about a jab, they don’t have a jab. They don’t have combinations. They don’t have anything. At 59 years old I think I could come back and win that title again [laughs].

BoxingInsider: How about Pacquiao vs. Hatton, two guys who love to fight, that will be a good battle.

Larry Holmes: That’s what they do. They beat each other up. They take punches. It’s who lands the big one. It’s a good fight but they hit each other, they don’t box, they don’t try not to get hit. They try to be, Who’s the toughest? And you don’t win like that. As far as in the long run, you lose. And you be walkin’ around later like, OMMM [laughs].

BoxingInsider: Then what do you think restore life and excitement in the heavyweight division?

Larry Holmes: What can restore it, and I say it all the time on my show, what happens is they have no television – ABC, NBC, CBS, the only thing they have now is ESPN, HBO and Showtime. And if you’re not in the favor of one of the promoters, you’re not gonna be on there. And that’s what makes fighting bad. I don’t want to pay $50 to watch some guys fight if I don’t know who they are. You gotta know who they are. They’re ruining the game from the top down. Because everybody want to out-do everybody, its about money all the time – even with these – who got multi-million dollars – these networks. One of the things they don’t like for me to do is talk about it. ‘Cause it’s true. And that’s what I’m gonna do is talk about it, I’ma tell the truth. We need TV involved so people can see who’s fighting and they need to be on free TV. With the economy the way it is, people are not willing to spend that $50-60 dollars for HBO. So give free TV, give a dog a bone to make that dog like you. And therefore, when that dog have to pay for that bone, that dog might pay for it. But meanwhile, the dog don’t want a bone because he ain’t ever seen it.

BoxingInsider: Do you like watching MMA?

Larry Holmes: No. No. Because you get hurt. If I throw you down and start choking you, hitting you behind the head or whatever they do, and I get up and kick you in the head, what you call that? That’s brutal boxing. Brutal fighting. Brutal fighting to win is what we do anyway. But you gotta have some kind of rules and some kind of regulations or you’re not gonna have it. You’re not gonna get it in that game. Anybody against anybody it can be, it’s all luck. If you boxing and you win, that’s a different story. Because I might not be able to wrestle as good as I can box. I could box better so I’m gonna beat you in boxing. But you might take me down and throw me down, then I’m in trouble.

BoxingInsider: So you don’t really like to watch it?

Larry Holmes: I watch it but I don’t have a favorite. I watch it and look at it. I don’t sit there and watch it like I would do a 12-round fight, if I knew who was fighting. If I knew Mayweather was fighting, I’d watch a 12-round fight with him, in and out, it’s exciting to watch him get away from punches. It’s exciting to watch him take a good punch. He’s exciting to watch him give one. So that’s why I like that better than this other junk that’s going on.

BoxingInsider: How about a guy like Bernard Hopkins, possibly one of the greatest pound-for-pound fighters in the history of boxing…

Larry Holmes: Yeah, he’s a great fighter. But – Bernard Hopkins is a good-ass fighter, he could fight – but I don’t like his bouts. He can box. He does the little things here and there – that I don’t like – but that don’t mean he ain’t a good fighter. He’s a good fighter. He don’t take what these guys are taking today. Those punches and the shots – he don’t take that. He goes out there and he boxes and he boxes to win. He goes out there to box to win to get the money. And that’s what boxing is all about. They used to holler at me, Why do you box?! For saying, I box for money. All you cats say, You boxing for the sport, don’t you like the sport? Yeah. Because it’s what’s gonna give me money. Do I want to get hit upside my head for free? No way in hell do I want to get hit for free. Give me money and try to hit me.

BoxingInsider: You showed a good martial arts drop-kick on Trevor Berbick.

BoxingInsider: Well, he messed around and insulted my family. And you don’t do that. That’s why it happened. If he would have left me alone – because I fought him and beat him 15 rounds out of 15. And he wanted a rematch. I said, Get ranked. I ain’t got time to mess with you. I’m making my comeback, I had returned and I said, If somebody pay us, we fight. Then he started calling me names and cussing me out. And I left, I didn’t want to hear it. So he couldn’t get more press. So he started on my wife and kids. And that’s a no-no. So I don’t feel sorry for him dying.

BoxingInsider: As a fan, what match-ups are you excited to see this year?

Larry Holmes: I don’t have a fight. I don’t care who fights these days.

BoxingInsider: Who would you like to see Mayweather in there with?

Larry Holmes: For one thing, I don’t follow the lightweights. I follow Mayweather. They’re talking about him coming out to fight somebody – I don’t know who it is – I don’t care. As long as he’s happy with what he’s doing, who he’s doing it with.

BoxingInsider: Let’s change the pace. How did it feel getting hit by Muhammad Ali?

Larry Holmes: It felt good, man [smiles].

BoxingInsider: Did he hit hard?

Larry Holmes: No [laughs].

BoxingInsider: What about in sparring when he was younger, did he hit hard then?

Larry Holmes: No. When I was working with Muhammad Ali from 1971-1974, he hit me. And a lot. From 1975 he couldn’t hit me no more. I quit. I didn’t work with him anymore. After he fought Chuck Wepner in Cleveland, Ohio, that was the last time I went in the ring with Muhammad Ali.

BoxingInsider: Did he fire you or what?

Larry Holmes: No, I quit.

BoxingInsider: Why?

Larry Holmes: Because I wanted to do my own thing. I didn’t want to end up being a sparring partner. I had to challenge. I had learned all I could from Muhammad. I learned all I could from Joe Frazier and Earnie Shavers. And all those other guys out there. I had learned. Because I was there sparring partners. When it was time for me to move away from them, I moved away. I wanted to be heavyweight champion of the world. I don’t want to be the heavyweight champion being sparring partner. That was my goal. And when I turned away from it, three years after I left Muhammad Ali, I was heavyweight champion of the world.

BoxingInsider: Did Ali ever tell you or give you a memorable compliment?

Larry Holmes: When I was working with Muhammad Ali, Ali said, Boy, you’re good. You’re pretty good. That’s all. But Ali would never show me how to do anything or tell me how to do it. Or give me any compliments. He just said, Boy, you’re good. He didn’t even say, Big Boy you’re going good [laughs]. But he was my man. He still is. And I learned a great deal from him. From 1971 to 1975 I worked with him as a sparring partner. And that was one of the greatest things that ever happened to me in my life.

Because I got a chance to learn a lot of how fighters are, of how people are in general, how people will cut your throat, stab you in the back, and how people will kiss your ass. And do that to you. And I watched and learned. A lot of times that made me bitter because I didn’t like what people were doing and saying about Muhammad Ali. Because to me he was my idol. But then I understand that because a lot of people are jealous of success. Ali was so successful and they didn’t like that. They with you when you’re winning and winning. And then you keep winning and they ain’t with you no more because they want to see you lose. Because they don’t want you to think that you’re better or more perfect than they are. So then they talk and then they want to put you down.

One of the worst things that happened to me is when I was going up against the record of Marciano. I didn’t want to tie the record. Because I didn’t want to be compared. I had so much pressure on me. When I lost it was the happiest day of my life probably. No more pressure. No more tying the record. No more thinking the white man is better than the black man. Then, after, I said that he couldn’t carry my jockstrap, in our day, they killed me. But that’s the way it was. That’s the way it went. So it takes a long time for people to get away from that. Because they didn’t want to see me break the record of one of the greatest fighters of all-time, Rocky Marciano. And I said to you, and anybody else, ONE of the greatest. Not the greatest. Because I don’t know any guy out there who was the greatest. Muhammad Ali would say he was the greatest. I can’t agree with that. Because I know Jack Johnson was a bad-ass man. You want to talk about movement you gotta go with Jack Johnson. Because he started that whole movement, that’s what it is, as far as I’m concerned. But these guys opened the doors for all of us right now, to be right here, standing in this position. And if it weren’t for those guys we wouldn’t be in this position.

BoxingInsider: Just want to go back and say I think it’s pretty clear you would have out-boxed Marciano 12 rounds to three or something like that.

Larry Holmes: You know what? I would whoop everybody [smiles]. Because you know what [starting to laugh]. I like me [laughs]. And I’m not gonna ever say that I think somebody could whoop my butt. If they can, they can. But I would never admit to it [laughs].

BoxingInsider: Of all your fights, which was Larry Holmes at his best? What was your finest performance where you felt the best in the ring?

Larry Holmes: The best moment was when I fought Kenny Norton for the championship in 1978. Even thought I was handicapped with one arm, and that was one of the best that I ever had.

Scoop Malinowski is the author of “Heavyweight Armageddon: The Tyson-Lewis Championship Battle.”